Deseret News | Speed has never been BYU's game

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Doug Robinson: Speed has never been BYU's game

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When the Moon / Stars all align | 10:09 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009

at some point in the not too distant future-BYU WILL follow in the Utes footsteps and bust the BCS.

Hopefully in our lifetimes!

Perhaps the confidence that Jake Heaps will bring to Provo will be that magic key.

Speed? | 10:33 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009

If by speed you mean a team full of 3.5 40 yard dash Jamaicans, then I guess BYU will never have speed.

But don't be dumb about it. BYU has enough speed and will get faster as the years continue, and will be fast enough to eventually compete with any team.

Just some thoughts.... | 12:34 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Recruiting a cornerback that is 5'4 is a huge problem....has nothing to do with speed.....the kid isn't tall enough to cover anyone but a fifth grader, he wasn't even good enough to keep his scholarship at San Diego State, yet he is the best the Y can do?

Comments continue below

Jim Shew | 1:03 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Many successful coaches today say, with confidence, that they will take speed any time over size. One only has to consider four recent games to come to that conclusion: the last two against TCU, FSU, and last years Utah game. What is true on the highway is true in football games: Speed kills.

Scenario | 2:44 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I always picture this with the Y coaching staff trying to recruit a 4 or 5 star RB, CB, or WR. They tell the recruit, "Son, you have to cover your tattoos, take off that diamond stud earring, no more dreadlocks, no visits to starbucks for a lattee, your friday nights will be listening to fireside chats where your favorite hip hop music will be replaced by listening to marie and osmond and finally, the parties at the Y have koolaid instead of beer and wine."
Sign me up I want to move to Provo, I want to go there instead of SC, Florida, Miami, etc

Rick | 6:01 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

BYU is headed for perpetual mediocrity. They will always be good enough to be in the top half of a non-BCS conference, and every once in a while they will pull out an unexpected victory. But conference championships will come at a less frequent rate, as will top25 rankings. BYU no longer has the advantage of having an offense ahead of its time.

Chin up Cougar fans, you will always have those videos of 1984. Just make sure they are properly archived because history ain't gonna repeat itself. You can continue to live vicariously through Utah's periodic visits to the BCS.

Keep telling yourself that | 6:13 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

BYU will have seasons when they can play competitively with most teams, but I believe their glory days are behind them.

As this article points out, by beloved Coach Edwards, the strategic edge BYU once held is now gone. More athletic teams now throw the ball regularly and effectively. Defenses that used to be unprepared for the prolific passing game BYU brought now see productive passing games frequently, executed with faster, quicker athletes than BYU can recruit.

I know the Cougar Faithful want to dismiss non-BYU fans for saying what I just did, but this article illustrates that your own legendary coach knows this to be true. Do you dare to argue with LaVell?

Frog | 6:14 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Y fans feel the need the speed since this is the 1st time that a time in their conference (WAC or MWC) looks like it can go toe to toe with the Y, in the past, the U, SDSU, etc had their moments but never any consistency, but it looks like TCU will be a perennial threat to the Y and TCU can recruit speed which the Y has a hard time doing

RE: Speed | 6:39 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Do you think BYU is just now figuring out they are not fast enough. If they have speed why do they need to get faster? If they do have speed why do they struggle againg teams with speed? Some day they will be able to compete, only when everyone else slows down.

Coach said it all... | 6:43 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

..."Sometimes you're just going to have those games when you don't get it done."...

Bronco and BYU usually have those games while playing good teams --TCU, Utah--and even .500 teams like Tulane, Tulsa, FSU

Re:Speed? | 10:33 p.m | 6:44 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

...BYU has enough speed and will get faster as the years continue, and will be fast enough to eventually compete with any team...

But when? The end of next decade? Or by the time your grandson plays for BYU?

"Stalwart" | 6:47 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Please, please not the S word. Come on Robinson, BYU has plenty of speed and tremendous athletes. I don't recall our linebackers or DB's ever getting beat deep by TCU. (Oh, and if they did it was missed assignments and poor execution. Wink-wink)

Sanpete perspective | 6:48 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Doug--you hit it right on the head. I might add NOT only speed but quickness. The sooner fans of any team including BYU and UofU set aside trying to fulfill their self esteem thru achievement of sports teams...the sooner we will take unnecessary pressure off ourselves and off the coaches and players. Enjoy the ride...our schools don't have to be BCS busters to be successful. Revel in the success of these young athletes and how they represent our state. These colleges do more with the resources and talent than do many other colleges with bigger budgets and more athletic players.

Y Fan | 6:50 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

BYU has plenty of speed...on the offence. They just need to convert the corners and safety's to be faster. Plus maybe the Defencive line... Okay probably the WHOLE defence need to be a little faster. Not like TCU or FCU to be BASED on speed. We need to be quick but we also need to beat teams that HAVE a lot of speed Like TCU or FSU.

The Difference | 6:52 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

between 1984 and 2009 is the spread offense. There was no spread in 1984 and with so many teams adopting it today, SPEED becomes even more of a weapon and the lack of speed becomes even more of a liability.

I don't think BYU should embrace the mentality that better execution will always win games. It's time to recruit speed... expecially on defense.

InAZ | 7:04 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Do you think teams on the average are faster today then they were in the 80's? Definately. BYU has litlle chance, VERY little chance, of even coming close to winning a national championship. What BYU usually has is great chemistry...but a well coached speedy team will most often prevail. To have a team of speed one needs to be able to have a very large recruiting pool....BYU is limited in that regard. BYU is my second favorite team, but this is just the way I see it.

Everyone Else Was Slow | 7:05 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

When BYU was at it's peak, everyone else was slow as well. That act got old. Speed makes up for other weaknesses. What does TCU (twice), Utah, Arizona and Florida State have in common? Speed

Clarification | 7:24 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I thought Bronco went 6-6 in his first year as head coach? This article states in his first two years, Mendenhall won 2 conference championships.

TrueRed.... | 7:35 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Re: sCENARIO---u SAID IT ALL!!!!

And to the Man in the Moon---send the Bronki a midnight text and tell him to add your "confidence" to his fundamentals and execution as the "third" need! It seems those late night text's are what gives him the final vision as to making a decision.

RR | 7:39 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Honestly, BYU needs a fiery coach. Dave Rose is firely, but still a strong member of the church. Bronco is a great man, I just wish he had a little more firepower in him.

@Scenario | 7:46 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

And your point is? You suggest changing for the sake of victories on the football field?

I think the pizza needs delivering....

right on | 8:07 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Execution is no longer sufficient on the field; it's what we as fans get for expecting the coaching staff to have their charges prepared to play and for expecting the same staff to have the smarts to adjust mid-game to what's going on .

trueblue | 8:08 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Is Wyoing a faster team than BYU ? I think people are making to much of this point. Having great team speed is an assett but it takes a lot more than just speed to win football games. TCU has great coaching and those kids play good clean football. THe same can be said of Utah, coach witt teaches players to play clean. Bronco does too and it will continue to get better in provo .
One area I would like to see BYU improve in is, fittness with the offensive line. BYU is typicaly big and strong but to fat. Mobility in the offensive line would be huge and nobody talks about it. Football starts and ends in the trenches. This is an area where I think BYU could be dominant. BYU has a decent offensive line but could be better. We may never get the best skill players that are out there but we can get and develop extremely good offensive/defensive lineman. Try to relax people, BYU is not that far off. Don't let the lopsided losses fool you The cougs are a pretty good football.

Re: Scenario | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

The funny thing is that you think that you are ever in the conversation with those other schools. I get tired of hearing how difficult it is to recruit at BYU because they are the "only one with an honor code" to get around, making it the toughest place to get recruits in the entire country.
Your religion also gets you in the door of a lot of 4 and 5 star recruits that you would never even sniff if they weren't LDS. Also, there are other schools with honor codes; and a few with much, much more difficult recruiting pitches ahead of them. Please go whine to one of the service academies about how hard it is to recruit.

Jack Wade | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

The only problem is that the offense isn't producing enough points to overcome a weak/slow defense. That's how LaVell's team were able to beat faster teams. They simply outscored them.

Now, we have a predictable offense and a slow defense. This is a recipe for disaster.

There is another "L" on the horizon...

Ernest T. Bass | 8:14 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Thats not true. Byu has true speed that doesn't always show up on the field. Were fast in other areas.
Byu is the best program by far in the west. We will win a lot more national championships.

RE: SANPETE PERSPECTIVE | 8:15 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I agree with you. Why so much critisism from people who should be very forgiving. Try to accomplish any task while being critisised; it's very difficult.

Eat your heart out Ute fans | 8:19 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

This has got to be one of the best couple of weeks that Ute fans have ever experienced. They get to revel in their rivals misery.

Fans and media are tripping over themselves to lower the bar for BYU.
What I have heard over the last 2 weeks is:
1. BYU does not have to speed and athleticism to compete with the best teams in the country.
2. BYU just isn't able to recruit the speed and athleticism necessary to compete with the best.

So you are basically saying that you not good enough and never will be.
Finally, what the Utes have been waiting for. A dose of humility from the Cougs.

Cboss | 8:29 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Great article! You could argue that every team BYU plays has more speed. I get so tired of hearing that after every lose. Then when they win nothing is mentioned and it's on to the next opponent that has more speed. But when they lose! Speed, speed, speed is all you hear. Enjoy this run of 10 plus wins, national rankings and .500 bowl record under Mendenhall as it is a lot better than the Crowton era and the last decade of the Edwards era!!!

Cougarf@n | 8:29 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I think Robinson's point is that the speed argument is a moot point. Yewt posters keep saying "speed kills" implying that BYU can never beat a team with more speed like FSU or TCU. This argument is wrong. SDSU, Oklahoma, and UNLV have more team speed than BYU, but BYU won those games. TCU has ALWAYS had better team speed than BYU, but BYU is 5-4 against TCU. If the game of football were so simple then they wouldn't need to play the games at all, they'd just match up each player's 40 yard dash and declare a national champion. The faster team does NOT always win. There's speed, strength, gameplans, schemes, coaching, motivation, and execution all of which play into who wins the game. TCU will lose a lot of players on defense this year and next year will be a toss up between BYU, Utah and TCU like it always is.

re: clarification | 8:31 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

you are right.
Year 1 6-6 - Vegas Bowl (loss)
year 2-3 - conference champs - Vegas Bowl (win & loss)
year 4 - 3rd place finish (Vegas Bowl)

year 5.....well not first place, maybe 2nd, maybe 3rd....Vegas Bowl

Looks like if there was a multiple choice question "What Bowl is BYU going to play in this year/every year?

Vegas Bowl..ding ding ding! What do we have for them Jonny?

Well we have the Vegas Bowl for them EVERY YEAR!

GO UTES!

PASSPASSPASS | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Just my point in another article - BYU is slow, therefore, ABANDON the RUN! ...BYU was slow all those years with McMahon, Young, Detmer, etc., but they won their games with PASSING, PASSING, PASS ... BYU will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER win with running the ball ....got that? ...NEVERRRRRR!!

Quickness | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Is Speed the right word - it seems to me that it should be quickness - that explosive, elusive first few steps that break open a receiver, make it through the hole for a runner, staying on top of a receiver during those first few seconds of a play, most QBs get only a 2 to 4 seconds to make any type of decision, RBs get a split second. BYU will probably only get a small handful of those quick type of athletes. It is what it is. Listen to the TCU coach - he is after quick/speed at every position - Jerry Hughes is an animal of a lineman as are the rest of their defense and offense. BYU can find speed as far as running a 100m at a competitive rate or maybe a few great 40 times, but I don't see them with many quick, explosive athletes.

Missing the point. | 8:57 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Almost everyone here on this blog is talking about the defense being slow. Did you actually watch the TCU game? I could tell from the 1st time Max Hall dropped back that BYU was in trouble. The defensived end from TCU was there almost as quick as the ball. TCU did not overwhelm BYU with there offense. It was the TCU defense that made BYU look oh so slow. The BYU offensive line looked like a bunch of big fat guys that couldn't even touch the smaller quicker defensive line from TCU. Don't get me wrong. The TCU defense is very physical and capable for stopping the run, but BYU needed to test that alot more than they did. The defense did look slow against FSU. Remember the offense was able to score against them. My advice, Run the ball straight up behind the big fat guys, no slow traps, or slow developing pass plays against a team like TCU, run the ball right up behind the big fat guys who can lean on the smaller quicker defensive line all day long. Tonga and Unga are big backs. They can punish the defense. Become Wisconsin for a week!

Digbads | 8:58 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Are BYU fans "panicking"? I've certainly not seen it. Sitting in the stadium, I don't see massive unhappiness. Quite the opposite. I see filled stadiums with excited fans. BYU is the best place in the world to take your kids to watch a football game.
BYU has lost 2 games this year, but is still in the top 25. What is up with that? Obviously Coach Mendenhall has helped BYU create a quality football program.
Hopefully he will continue to do a great job. I hope he doesn't take advice from the knuckleheads that give it out here in these forums. Yikes!

SEC Rules | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Come on guys....BYU has never been a national power. The 1984 thing was not a National Championship. BYU did not beat a single team that year that finished in the top 20. In thier supposed storied past, they have only beaten two team that finished the season in the top 10. They had long winning streaks in the early 80's because they played teams just a little better than Junior College programs. I honestly think the only top ten team BYU has had was the year they beat Kansas State in a bowl game ( think that was 1990 or 91). That was a good team. Other than that.....not much.

Utah has been very good twice (2004 and 2008) and pretty good in a year they finished in the top 5 (late 90's) but that does not make then a storied program.

Just take what you get and tell your kids they are the best in the nation. They will believe you until they watch an SEC game in person.

Warren Kay | 9:02 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Their lack of speed is a major reason they have not broken into the elite who have busted the BCS... And the way it looks, it could be a long time before they bust the BCS.

LaVar the Utah Cat | 9:06 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

To: Sanpete Perspective
"and how they represent our state."
News, Sanpete Perspective! BYU does not represent the state of Utah. They represent their religion, their religious culture, and their religious school only. They are not a state school they are only a religious school. Times have changed from a quarter century ago when Mormonism and Utah were synonymous

Take it Old School | 9:07 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

BYU's defense needs to get faster because they have to defend the spread.

I think going old school on offense is the answer for BYU. Smash-mouth, grind-it-out old fashioned football. Look at our offensive line! They are built for that type of game. Long drives with mostly running plays would eat up the clock and keep a suspect defense off the field.

Big bruising backs would wear down opposing defenses who are built to defend the spread. Unga is our best player. We would have beat Utah last year if he had had a chance to carry the ball in the second half. His average yards per carry was something like 7 or 8 in the first half. Instead we played right into their hands (literally) with the passing game.

BYU loses to the spread | 9:09 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

It is not just a matter of speed. Speed helps but slow teams can kill the spread. First you have to figure out what the team is using the spread to do (usually run like TCU).

Next you have to be aggressive and attack. BYU did change to a 3/4 which is better against the spread. However, the prevent is your last desperation defense against the spread. The problem is in BYU's defensive philosophy.

They need a little more speed on defense and a much more aggressive stunting disruptive style on defense. They have to stunt the linebackers and blitz. They have to confuse the quarterback reads. If they let the QB sit back read the defense and then exploit it they are going to lose.

BYU and Jerry Sloan are very similar. They will not adjust when they need to adjust. They will not fix their weaknesses because of philosophy.

Idahoan | 9:15 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Did anyone else not grab the other point from the article? When the guys are playing as freshmen and even sophomores, they're not learning from watching on the sidelines. I think having the players sit out and learn for a year or two is a positive thing. I think players want to play immediately though. There's the risk that having someone sit a year or two could cause them to either not go where they would have to wait, or transfer after being there and sitting on the bench.

Robinson knows BYU has struggled with speed. Yet he pointed out that the knowledge gained by watching and learning could compensate for that.

Ernest T. Bass | 9:35 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Slow and steady wins the race every single time. Except when you are playing TCU, Florida State and Utah.

Anonymous | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

You may be right - the difference does appear to be execution rather than speed.

Max is Quick | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

to throw interceptions. Can't wait to see how many Ute completions Hall has this year.

BYU's Record | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Wow, Doug. You're WAY OFF.

BYU did NOT go undefeated in conference play during Bronco's first two years. In 2005, BYU LOST to TCU, San Diego State, and Utah.

So Cal Y Fan | 10:05 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I usually hate Doug Robinson's articles. However, this article was actually pretty good. He addressed a valid concern about the Y team and backed it up with some pretty credible support.

Cougarf@n | 10:11 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

"Re: clarification" attempts to correct the article with his own mis-information. BYU won the Vegas bowl both years they went as MWC champs. Bronco's first year was a loss to Cal. BYU beat down a favored Oregon team in Bronco's second year and barely eeked by a mediocre UCLA team in year 3. Yewts all seem to have last year's loss to AZ etched in their memory. So BYU is 2-2 in the Vegas Bowl under Mendenhall.

Re: Bass, steady and slow worked fine against Utah and TCU in 2006 and 2007, and it will work fine against ewe in 2009.

Just Execute!! | 10:14 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

It doesnt matter everyone all Bronco needs to do is execute like he said and if we execute perfectly we will win 70% of our games. If we are perfect and can fill our schedule with UNLV's and New Mexico's. Listen let us be like BSU and play only 1 team a year with a winning record and we could be ranked #4 right now too. Who cares about this yr, this yr is over, we'll lose 2 or 3 more. Next yr should be a lot easier, at FSU, TCU, AF, UTAH and CSU... Should be a piece of cake...??? Good luck Bronco with your slowwwwww executing fball team. We are done for next yr too.

Anonymous | 10:16 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Slow and steady wins the race? Too bad for byu this is FOOTBALL not a race

Re ernest | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Maybe on another planet that would work great nut your weak link is this is earth

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