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Weber professor says the Great Salt Lake could be dying
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remember 83'-86' | 8:48 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
It probably won't be long and we'll be pumping water out onto the salt
flats again...in 83 we had more water than we knew what to do with, and by 86
this lake was overflowing into places we didn't want it.
We're just in a cycle.
We're just in a cycle.
Man Made Guy | 9:10 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Darwin,
You are missing the point. We are messing with the lake by using the water that would be flowing into the lake. It is not simply a matter of natural patterns. I am tired of people not accepting that humans can indeed have an impact on the eco system.. Rain forests in South America Anyone!! Sometimes the hysteria is well founded
You are missing the point. We are messing with the lake by using the water that would be flowing into the lake. It is not simply a matter of natural patterns. I am tired of people not accepting that humans can indeed have an impact on the eco system.. Rain forests in South America Anyone!! Sometimes the hysteria is well founded
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 9:14 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I can't wait for the GSL rise another 17 feet again,
and listen to the whinning when all those big beautiful houses go underwater.
and listen to the whinning when all those big beautiful houses go underwater.
GSLWshoreLnRes | 9:41 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
My family's property was greatly affected in 83'! The land has changed
drasticly since! If we were to get that much water again we would all be in
trouble! Bye...Bye..Legacy Highway! There's too much sediment deposits in
places that most people don't see, or realize is happening...but...if there
were to be the big overdue earthquake that's supposed to happen along the
Wasatch..............Who knows?
Please read the article | 9:55 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
This article isn't about global warming or Obama. Sorry guys. It's
about water management. No global warming propaganda or Obama-hate opportunities
here. This article requires reading and thought. I am sure there will be new
articles about the horrors of global warming and Obamaman soon enough.
Look at reality, | 10:01 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
People are impacting the lake, more and more of us around, and that is good too
if they are good people. Good people give nature a chance and manage it
correctly. Lets not lose this great heritage by acting stupid and saying stupid
things. Abuse is abuse. No I am not an eastern enviornmentalist, I am a Utahn
who hunts, fishes, and hoepfully respects nature too. We are also in a drought
situation at least in part of the state.
cb | 10:09 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
We need to take longer showers and get rid of low flow toilets. That would cause
more water to flow into the lake.
Dear CB and Darwin | 12:39 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
What an absolutely clueless response. What makes you think he waste water from
our showers and toilets flow to the Great Salt Lake. As a kid I used to swim in
the Lake all the time. This is a cause for concern.
Darwin your argument shows me that you truly don't understand the problem. Not one single word in this article mentioned global warming or anything like that. It simply said we need to better manage the water. Get a grip on reality Darwin, because you certainly are not dealing with reality.
Darwin your argument shows me that you truly don't understand the problem. Not one single word in this article mentioned global warming or anything like that. It simply said we need to better manage the water. Get a grip on reality Darwin, because you certainly are not dealing with reality.
Silva | 2:05 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
There is a point where the Wasatch front will no longer be able to expand. Case
in point is Las Vegas trying to steal Utah's water.
We have to decide whether we want to draw the great Salt Lake down to the point where the dust storms, like in the Aral sea area, destroy the land east of it.
We have to decide whether we want to draw the great Salt Lake down to the point where the dust storms, like in the Aral sea area, destroy the land east of it.
flouride, and its effects | 4:21 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I was saddened when it was chosen by the voters (by a small margin) to add
flouride to our water, which was then used for watering our gardens and lawns.
I wonder what the effect of all this flouride is going to have as it collects in
the Great Salt Lake.
serious | 6:20 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I would like to ask in all seriousness if it would matter (other than looking
ugly) if the lake were to dry up/or greatly shrink in size?
Since the salt level in the water makes it unfit to drink or to use for irrigation, what real harm would it cause?
Seems like the fresh water that now ends up in there to instead go for humans, animals or crops is a good thing.
As it shrinks a little at a time, the natural consequence seems to be that slowly birds who may use it for refugee will learn to go elsewhere (northern Utah ) and gradually, development and building on the land would take place--and that doesn't seem to be such a horror.
Since the salt level in the water makes it unfit to drink or to use for irrigation, what real harm would it cause?
Seems like the fresh water that now ends up in there to instead go for humans, animals or crops is a good thing.
As it shrinks a little at a time, the natural consequence seems to be that slowly birds who may use it for refugee will learn to go elsewhere (northern Utah ) and gradually, development and building on the land would take place--and that doesn't seem to be such a horror.
interesting article | 6:22 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I will have to read the article. Seems to be logical. I hope he quoted Dr.
Deon Greer who mapped the GSL a long time ago, as a project when Deon was a
prof. of geography at WSU. Deon used that knowledge to get another trip to the
then-Soviet Union to talk about environmental matters, etc.
I will have to read the article.
I will have to read the article.
Ja | 6:27 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
If there's a way to ruin the planet, humans will think of it.
Who Cares? | 6:45 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
In the end things will only change when their is an impact directly to people
living here. Until that happens, nothing will change. Indeed, it will probably
get worse as the population here continues to grow. Yet that could also be
helpful as the dominated faith decreases in size and control and other groups
move in and eventually take control of the legislature. Then things may change
but probably not.
Energy Star Washers | 6:48 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I bought an energy star washer and am not happy. On the last rince cycle the
water is still soapy. If I want to get clothes properly rinsed, after every wash
I need to put it on another rinse cycle.
Water savings has come at the cost of rinsing.
Water savings has come at the cost of rinsing.
Dennis | 6:53 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The GSL is getting the same amount of water if not more now, than it ever has.
If you will ALL remember, before this past century, water was not held anywhere.
When the Lake went down because of climatic reasons, it went up for the same
reason.
Silly humans think they control everything.
How does Mr. Weber professor explain off Bangeters sensation "pumping" of the lake just a few years ago?
Some people will write anything to get their name in print.
Silly humans think they control everything.
How does Mr. Weber professor explain off Bangeters sensation "pumping" of the lake just a few years ago?
Some people will write anything to get their name in print.
Al Gore | 6:56 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Needs to to come to the rescue!!!
Urban Sprawl | 7:10 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Maybe if every new person moving into Utah didn't think they needed a 0.5
acre plot for their home so they could have half of a football field for a yard
we wouldn't be wasting so much water making green grass grow in a desert.
Build more high rise apartment buildings where people don't need a lawn.
Stop spreading out across the desert and build up, not out.
daveescaped | 7:16 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Look, I'm a Republican. I listen to Rush Limbaugh. But use some common
sense. Man has an impact on the GSL. Is man completely to blame for lake level
changes? Of course not. But let's at least study and understand what our
footprint is before we go trodding our great resources underfoot.
I am originally from the Great Lakes region. Anyone of any political stripe can tell you how man has at times threatened those great resources. Invasive species like lamprey and asian carp are not the work of mother nature (how they arrived in the lakes anyway). Neither is pollution. But learn from those lakes and from the Aral Sea. The Aral Sea is the extreme example but one no one wants to see repeated.
Obviously diverting water has an impact. How much impact is what needs to be looked at.
I am originally from the Great Lakes region. Anyone of any political stripe can tell you how man has at times threatened those great resources. Invasive species like lamprey and asian carp are not the work of mother nature (how they arrived in the lakes anyway). Neither is pollution. But learn from those lakes and from the Aral Sea. The Aral Sea is the extreme example but one no one wants to see repeated.
Obviously diverting water has an impact. How much impact is what needs to be looked at.
gatwayToNevada | 7:16 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
"What makes you think the waste water from our showers and toilets flow to
the Great Salt Lake."
Gravity. Where else would it go?
Gravity. Where else would it go?
Anonymous | 7:22 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Hey Darwin, living in a "dessert" could be hazardous. For $4.95, you
can order a slice, but you had better be able to dodge the knife. But denying
global climate change is short-sighted, and there is no reason we should not be
better stewards of the planet. Be part of it, not the oppressor.
Solutions? | 7:45 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Why complain and gripe about something if you don't have a solution. So
what do you do to stop the lake from going down huh? stop people from drinking
water? how about you make everyone have brown lawns and make our daily
environment look disgusting and depressing so that the lake has enough water?
Or maybe you tell people to stop moving to SLC because they would use more water
and then the economy of SLC shrivels up. Any of those sound like good ideas?
Re; Flouride | 7:54 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Great Comment... I have a filter to take OUT flouride since it is a poison and I
don't want my family drinking it. But I didn't think about the
effects on the GSL and other water ways. People who don't research
flouride are ingesting too much of it and it is affecting their brains! Time to
wake up everyone!
Who cares | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The only purpose of the great SL is LAKE EFFECT in the MTNS for Ski
Season....other than that it is a ugly smelly mess......if it dries up will it
take OBAMA with it? The both smell...
EPJ | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Much of our watershed along the Wasatch Front comes directly from "lake
effect" snowfall. If we can do without the water and the skiing industry
dollars, and everything else that is impacted, then the lake's existence is
not that important.
Snoozer | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The lake is drying up!!!!
We can still visit it as a landmark, whether the water is there or not and we will still be able to have the same amount of interaction.
We can still visit it as a landmark, whether the water is there or not and we will still be able to have the same amount of interaction.
Realtor | 8:38 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
What people don't consider is that in 50 years demand for land around the
lake will be at a premium. A lower lake will mean much more real estate around
the lake-more homes and more prosperity. If the lake dried up completely
someday, there would be enough room for millions more people to live in Utah. If
people only realized what the land value of the area under the lake is, they
would get out those pumps and drain it dry!
Oblivious | 8:41 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Bigger lawns, swimming pools, and other wasteful uses of water need a reality
check, i.e. higher taxes. Let the GSL dry up? That is not an option.
Re: Serious | 8:43 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
It would matter. Oh, yes it would. Have you ever noticed the precipitation
patterns in Utah. The Wasatch Front gets tons of lake effect precipitation. If
the Great Salt Lake dried up, you would look like most of the rest of Utah. Salt
Lake is about the same elevation as Green River Utah. Go take a drive, and
don't just look at the life right next to the river. Now, I don't
think the Great Salt Lake will dry up, it is just a cycle. I also don't
think conversing water really matters in this instance. ( Liked the Gravity
comment) Not much we can do about the water level, well I guess you could pump
water over the mountians from another drainage, or seed some clouds. Oh wait
that already happens. So probably the best thing to do is just wait for the
level to rise again. Or here is an idea. Use bottled water more like to flush
your toilets, and bathe in it. Oh and make sure it is not bottled locally. Have
fun debating.
Domino | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The would actually be a significant domino effect if the lake dries up. The
brine shrimp population would die. Besides killing the brine shrimp industry (a
minor impact), that would end up significantly diminishing the seagull
population, which would lead to exponential increases in the grasshopper and
cricket population. The domino effect would continue from that point.
Anonymous | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Ok, call me an idiot..Maybe Im missing something..
But, Lets say the GSL drys up..
Does it really matter? I mean, what would be effected? I guess some birds?
The water isnt much use.. There arent any fish.. Its ugly.. so, is it the end of the world?
Someone that understands this impact, please teach me, cuz I honestly dont know and wish to understand.
But, Lets say the GSL drys up..
Does it really matter? I mean, what would be effected? I guess some birds?
The water isnt much use.. There arent any fish.. Its ugly.. so, is it the end of the world?
Someone that understands this impact, please teach me, cuz I honestly dont know and wish to understand.
Hey Serious | 8:49 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Serious: Let the lake dry out completely then build on it? You won't be
able to grow anything on it (lawns, gardens -- too salty). Plus, you'd be
building on the lowest land in northern Utah -- essentially building on the
drain pipe of your sink -- a bigtime flood hazard. Geography usurps plans of
the uninformed....
Not this stuff again | 8:52 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Back in the 1980's I remember another Weber State professor who made a
drastic prediction about the Great Salt Lake, except back then he confidently
predicted the lake would continue rising above its historical high.
He based his prediction on a statistical model he developed for stock markets, and according to the data the lake was destined to rise. After all, the model had predicted it would.
Based in part on his hand-wringing the State of Utah built the pumps on the west side of the lake to keep the lake level down. Right after they were finished we entered a drought and the lake started receding.
He based his prediction on a statistical model he developed for stock markets, and according to the data the lake was destined to rise. After all, the model had predicted it would.
Based in part on his hand-wringing the State of Utah built the pumps on the west side of the lake to keep the lake level down. Right after they were finished we entered a drought and the lake started receding.
rusby | 9:02 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I wonder about this article. I become slightly skeptical when someone posits
their entire premise on "I was wondering if the thing that happened at the
Aral Sea could happen here also." There didn't seem to be very many
studies conducted. I think the professor should do more research and answer his
own question before he comes public.
Terry Marasco | 9:08 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The Las Vegas pipeline which will affect the flow system to the Lake is another
factor of concern. The flow from Snake Valley flows underground into the GSL at
the rate of thousands of acre feet/year. This flow will slow and eventually
reverse.
Such projects are misguided and need to be replaced by available alternatives such as conservation, recycling, and reuse. Water is not the problem; it is problematic water managers.
Such projects are misguided and need to be replaced by available alternatives such as conservation, recycling, and reuse. Water is not the problem; it is problematic water managers.
Arrogance | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
What is the long term history of the GSL? What were levels like 200 years ago or
300 years ago? Oh that’s right we have no idea.
Man has a long history of interpreting 100 years of data on nature and making things even worse. Who are we to say that the optimum level of the lake is "x" number of feet? It is an ecosystem we hardly know anything about and yet just like a kid we are in a rush to get in the middle of it. This is seriously flawed and dangerous thinking.
Does man have an impact, of course. Should we be more aware, certainly. There is a huge difference between being a responsible conservationist who uses the land but protects it for future generations and a raging environmentalist who views man as the single largest source of the Earth's problems.
We must never forget that the Earth is 4 billion years old and we know next to nothing about it and we should not pretend that we do. Human arrogance has caused more damage to society and the environment than indiscriminant stupidity.
Man has a long history of interpreting 100 years of data on nature and making things even worse. Who are we to say that the optimum level of the lake is "x" number of feet? It is an ecosystem we hardly know anything about and yet just like a kid we are in a rush to get in the middle of it. This is seriously flawed and dangerous thinking.
Does man have an impact, of course. Should we be more aware, certainly. There is a huge difference between being a responsible conservationist who uses the land but protects it for future generations and a raging environmentalist who views man as the single largest source of the Earth's problems.
We must never forget that the Earth is 4 billion years old and we know next to nothing about it and we should not pretend that we do. Human arrogance has caused more damage to society and the environment than indiscriminant stupidity.
get serious | 9:18 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Sure it sounds horrible when you phrase it as, "Within 3 feet of its lowest
level."
It doesn't nearly sound so bad when you phrase it as, "Only 5.6 feet below its average level."
It doesn't nearly sound so bad when you phrase it as, "Only 5.6 feet below its average level."
Re Fluoride, Re Re Fluoride | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
At the time the voters chose to have fluoride added to our water, I was
concerned about the effect on the GSL. I mentioned this to a Biology professor
at Westminster College, and he said maybe the fluoride level at the lake should
be monitored. I don't know if anyone is doing that.
Several posts have spoken about the final destination of our culinary water. Can someone who has factual information tell us what happens to water after it leaves a waste treatment plant?
Several posts have spoken about the final destination of our culinary water. Can someone who has factual information tell us what happens to water after it leaves a waste treatment plant?
Biologist | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The GSL is a critical stop for millions of migratory birds that migrate from
Canada and Alaska to South and Central America. As many as 60+ species of birds
use the lake and surounding wetlands for all or part of the year. These birds
bring in hundreds of million dollars to the state's economy and likely
billions of dollars to western north america through tourism for bird watching,
and waterfowl hunting. To lose the lake through poor water management would be a
shame and a tragety because we would lose the majority of these birds. People
who blog negatively about environmental issues on this site are myopic.
Biologist | 9:37 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Futhermore, the GSL generates hundreds of millions more dollars in brine shrimp
production. So its not just a dead salty lake that has no value. You have to put
a dollar amount on these things to get the GOP's attention.
Dear CB and Darwin | 9:42 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The reason the lake is dieing is the water that used to go into the lake,
showers, toilets, etc. is now being recycled and we are drinking it, that is why
it tastes so good.
scary | 9:43 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Urban sprawl's post scares me more than anything. Some just use environmental scare tactics not to save the planet, as they claim, but to curtail freedom, especially when it comes to private property. If I earned the money, why can't I buy what ever size lot I want? Move to Europe if you want someone dictating that you or I has to live in an apartment. Here in the USA, we count the right to own and use property as a fundamental freedom.
Your argument has more to do with government control that with saving the GSL.
scary
Precipitation | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
That is the answer to all the questions about what affect it would have. If the
Lake is dry,the rest of the valley would be dry. Lake effect precipitation, if
you don't get that the Wasatch Front would look like the rest of Utah. I
posted the reply to serious if you can't tell. Let me explain. As a front
crosses the water of the Great Salt Lake it picks up moisture. As it gets to the
mountians to the east the air of this front rises to go over the mountians. As
the air rises it cools and moisture is released in the valley and on the West
Slope of the Wasatch Mountians. Therefore we receive more rain in those
valley's than in the rest of Utah and we receive more Snow in those
mountians than the rest of Utah. Notice where most of the ski resorts are in
Utah. If the lake goes dry, less snow, less rain, less able to support life.
Notice the population patterns in Utah. There is not a big lake West of Piute
County or one west of Millard County. Take a drive Nephi to St. George.
dugwaybill | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
It's really not a great idea to be using water on lawns in a desert
climate. Attractive landscaping alternatives are available. Plus, you can save
money on maintenance!
More from Precipitation | 9:59 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Here is my problem with this story. The Professor is complaining that we are
going to pipe water from the Bear River drainage to the Thirsty as he calls it
Wasatch Front. The Bear River does drain into the Great Salt Lake. The water
that will be piped from it will also drain from the Thirsty Wasatch Front into
the Great Salt Lake. It will just go though the ground and go in as ground
water. So really there will be no net gain of loss of water draining into the
Great Salt Lake. What is really affecting the level is the amount of outside
moisture reaching the area in the form of storms. The lake affect is just
evoporation from the lake and return to the lake. It is all in the same cycle.
So the real issue is the weather patterns of moisture outside this self
contained cycle. So if we get a few juicy storms that come in bring moisture
from the ocean, we have more moisute in our little self contained cycle. If we
get less moisture from the ocean we could be in trouble because our little cycle
could dry up.
Ernest T. Bass | 10:00 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Why doesn't the State of Utah stock the lake with trout? That would
certainly help.
Another cookie cutter cause | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
One thing I notice about these "greeny meanies" is that they're
never happy unless they are somehow infringing upon other people liberties.
These people need to get religion because if they would put as much time and
energy into helping fellow humans instead of trying to rid the planet of them
the world would be a much better place...It bothers me that they assume that
everyday Americans wish to destroy the planet, talk about hypocritical and
condescending arrogance. These people are caught up in worshiping the creation
and not the creator and are a scourge to America.
Water guy | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The main sources of water for Great Salt Lake are the Bear River, Provo River,
and the water treatment facilities located around the lake. Most of the storm
water, over-watered lawn water and household use water finds it's way to
the lake. Don't forget the imported water brought to the Wasatch Front by
the Central Utah Project. All the water that would have gone down the Colorado
River to Lake Powell is now being diverted into Salt Lake Valley and will
eventually percolate into the lake. It is likely this new source of water
(Colorado River) will keep the lake up longer than anticipated.
Every time | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
someone brings up a concern over the GSL we automatically start laughing
histerically and say "yea I remember when we built those stupid pumps
too!" and that is supposed to put an end to all worries about the lake. I
think the guy who is worried cited that as an issue. Most people just really
don't care what happens to the lake because we don't fish in it.
I was not raised a tree hugger, but I can see that man has to manage its use of nature or terrible things happen. Maybe the lake will go up in a year or two, but when it comes down again how far? If we are diverting all the water that feeds the lake where does it come from?
I'm sure it will conveniently be the stupid governments fault when we are all choking on clouds of salty dust blown in every time we get a good wind. I'm not saying we can't divert water. Just do it smart so that we maintain the ecosystem.
I was not raised a tree hugger, but I can see that man has to manage its use of nature or terrible things happen. Maybe the lake will go up in a year or two, but when it comes down again how far? If we are diverting all the water that feeds the lake where does it come from?
I'm sure it will conveniently be the stupid governments fault when we are all choking on clouds of salty dust blown in every time we get a good wind. I'm not saying we can't divert water. Just do it smart so that we maintain the ecosystem.
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In the natural cycle of things Lake Bonneville has dwindled to become the relatively insignificant Great Salt Lake. And, the Lake level has dropped many times, and even risen many times (West Desert pumps anyone?).
FOrget any man made global warming hysteria, this has been going on for thousands of years.
Yes, if the lake dries up, it will cause problems. However. let's not let a bunch of "experts" meddle too much with nature.
We do live in a dessert. By choice.