Reader comments
Readers' forum: Double-dipping wrong
24 comments | Read story
huh | 3:11 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
why is it wrong?
Lincoln freed the slaves | 3:53 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
If you've earned a retirement from one employer and so you retire, but
you'd still like to work, then good for you!
What's the alternative? Telling people who've earned their retirements that the only way they'll be permitted to retire is if they drop out of the workforce?
What nonsense!
What's the alternative? Telling people who've earned their retirements that the only way they'll be permitted to retire is if they drop out of the workforce?
What nonsense!
Comments continue below
Please tell me | 6:30 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I am curious, how is double dipping wrong?
If a person has a retirement, they earned it. If they choose to work after qualifying for that retirement they are earning that money.
All money gotten is earned, what is the logic (other than just saying it is so) that makes this wrong?
If a person has a retirement, they earned it. If they choose to work after qualifying for that retirement they are earning that money.
All money gotten is earned, what is the logic (other than just saying it is so) that makes this wrong?
Explain | 7:09 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Explain what you mean about "double dipping." We ignorant folk need a
little more information than was given in the letter.
Nothing Happens | 7:33 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Nothing happens to the pension fund. These people retired. Their pension
payments are due no matter whether they get another job or not. That was the
deal made with them. Work 20 years and you can retire.
It is unfair to blame them for a poorly thought out decision by political leaders.
It is unfair to blame them for a poorly thought out decision by political leaders.
RedShirt | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
If double dipping is so bad, get rid of the pension plans and go 401K only. How
hard is that?
Anonymous | 8:33 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Nothing wrong with it at all, unless it is prearranged to just remain in the
same position, collecting the same salary plus retirment.
If i retire, but want to keep working, why should I not be entitled to the retirement benefits I have earned? Does that mean I am no longer allowed to have a job?
The only time it is corrupt is when an official gets to prearrange his own salary and retirement package with little or no oversight, or when good buddies make special arragements for each other.
Retirement programs are designed to encourage people to leave their employement after a certain number of years. That deosn't mean they should have to leave the workforce entirely, just that they have earned the option to leave on their terms.
If i retire, but want to keep working, why should I not be entitled to the retirement benefits I have earned? Does that mean I am no longer allowed to have a job?
The only time it is corrupt is when an official gets to prearrange his own salary and retirement package with little or no oversight, or when good buddies make special arragements for each other.
Retirement programs are designed to encourage people to leave their employement after a certain number of years. That deosn't mean they should have to leave the workforce entirely, just that they have earned the option to leave on their terms.
LibertyHobbit | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
In some cases, a very qualified retiree is needed and even desired to fill a
position. Should a government agency needing a great employee NOT hire the best
qualified applicant just because they happen to have been previously employed in
a position that carried the same retirement system? And this doesn't
always happen WITHIN the same organization. I am not saying that the system
couldn't stand a review. However, there are times when double-dipping
occurs as a secondary effect of a great hire . . . think about it.
2 bits | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I don't see what's so immoral or evil about it (like someone said, as
long as it isn't prearanged and I think it is ALREADY against the rules to
return to the same job or even the same group you retired from).
What... do we expect people who retire as early as 40 to just sit around and not work for the rest of their lives? Or to be banished from public service... even though they now have more skills many government agencies need to provide the services they provide?
My brother did it. It's working out great for him AND his employer. He was an accountant for a School District. Retired and now works for a totally different State agency, but accounting is accounting and if they are looking for mature experienced professional accountants... why NOT apply?
Personally I think the retirement age is too low and the retirement benefits too high... but try changing the benefits of teachers and other State employees... And you'll have their Union shutting you down with a strike faster than you can say "oops". And you'll end up INCREASING pay and benefits or else.
What... do we expect people who retire as early as 40 to just sit around and not work for the rest of their lives? Or to be banished from public service... even though they now have more skills many government agencies need to provide the services they provide?
My brother did it. It's working out great for him AND his employer. He was an accountant for a School District. Retired and now works for a totally different State agency, but accounting is accounting and if they are looking for mature experienced professional accountants... why NOT apply?
Personally I think the retirement age is too low and the retirement benefits too high... but try changing the benefits of teachers and other State employees... And you'll have their Union shutting you down with a strike faster than you can say "oops". And you'll end up INCREASING pay and benefits or else.
Bill Baumgardner Sr. | 11:09 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I am a retired truck driver in the Teamsters. I retired & am NOT permitted
to work in any part of the trucking industry or I lose my pension. This is the
way it should be. If I want to go back to driving, I lose it, but if I go to
Walmarts to work, I keep my pension & continue to earn $$. This is right,
but we have a lot of retired drivers that DO go back to driving with a local
non-union co. & take the chance of losing their pension. Some get caught
& some do not. I have NO desire to drive again & am enjoying my
retirement, with my wife, working in the Temple. :) Thank you.
cbird | 11:14 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
State employees don't have a Union. PEHP is a lobbyist group, they do not
represent the employee's they represent their special interests.
Anonymous | 11:17 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Nothing wrong with it at all.
In fact they earn my respect for figuring out how to take a lousy job and make it work for their family.
In fact they earn my respect for figuring out how to take a lousy job and make it work for their family.
Anonymous | 11:19 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
if they get rid of the pension plan then NO ONE will become teachers or police
officers.
That is the only thing left for most of those in those jobs.
That is the only thing left for most of those in those jobs.
System problem | 11:47 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The problem is not government employees who take advantage of the benefits
offered. The problem is a government system that offers full retirement benefits
after only 20 years of service. That is completely out of line with private
sector benefits.
Those of us in the private sector fully expect to work 40 years before we are able to retire. Even if we don't work for the same company with a pension plan all those 40 years, we must take advantage of every 401(k) plan and partial pensions we earn at each company.
Those of us in the private sector fully expect to work 40 years before we are able to retire. Even if we don't work for the same company with a pension plan all those 40 years, we must take advantage of every 401(k) plan and partial pensions we earn at each company.
anonymous | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Lincolns emancipation proclamation did not free all of the slaves. The reading
of the proclaimation says that those slaves in states where the Union Army
exists are freed.(Virginia, Mississippi etc) The bulk of the South was not
effected. President Lincoln did it for "military reasons" as Commander
in Chief of the Army and Navy.
The war had to be experienced in order to free the slaves. (the monitors will probably reject this blog of mine as well.)Many of the freed slaves were used in the Union Army.
The war had to be experienced in order to free the slaves. (the monitors will probably reject this blog of mine as well.)Many of the freed slaves were used in the Union Army.
cbird | 1:01 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I meant UPEA, not PEHP
To "cbird | 11:14 a.m." | 1:07 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
cbird | 11:14 a.m.
You say, "State employees don't have Unions".
Let me enlighten you. Have you ever heard of the UEA or NEA? They are the teacher's UNIONs. Teachers are State employees. Have you never heard of teachers going on strike? Who do you think calls and organizes those strikes? (Hint: UEA)
Have you never heard of police/fire employees going on strike? Who do you think organizes those strikes??? (Hint... Their Union Leaders).
City Bus drivers frequently threaten to strike. Do they have a Union? Obviously!
Of course there is no Union that represents ALL State employees, but each group has their OWN Union. Do you deny that?
And if you mess with the benefits of Teachers, Bus Drivers, Garbage Men, Police, etc... You will figure out they DO have a Union and that Union will bust you till you give them the benefits and other concessions (like retiring at 20 with full healthcare benefits for life and full salary, and plenty of time to go out and get a second job and start working on a SECOND pension for retirement).
If you think State employees don't have Unions... 200 words gone.
You say, "State employees don't have Unions".
Let me enlighten you. Have you ever heard of the UEA or NEA? They are the teacher's UNIONs. Teachers are State employees. Have you never heard of teachers going on strike? Who do you think calls and organizes those strikes? (Hint: UEA)
Have you never heard of police/fire employees going on strike? Who do you think organizes those strikes??? (Hint... Their Union Leaders).
City Bus drivers frequently threaten to strike. Do they have a Union? Obviously!
Of course there is no Union that represents ALL State employees, but each group has their OWN Union. Do you deny that?
And if you mess with the benefits of Teachers, Bus Drivers, Garbage Men, Police, etc... You will figure out they DO have a Union and that Union will bust you till you give them the benefits and other concessions (like retiring at 20 with full healthcare benefits for life and full salary, and plenty of time to go out and get a second job and start working on a SECOND pension for retirement).
If you think State employees don't have Unions... 200 words gone.
Charles | 2:08 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
To the letter writer: Why not just go over to your friends house and talk to him
about it instead of writing a letter to the newspaper?
What kind of friend is that?
What kind of friend is that?
Anonymous | 2:34 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Utah teachers have never gone on strike. They boycotted one day back in 1989
and the govt leaders decided to cancel classes. They don't have a union.
They have an association. The UEA has NO power with lawmakers or teachers.
They just advise what they think is best. Even the teachers know the UEA is a
joke and just a scapegoat for rightwingers to take the blame for everything that
upsets someone.
Getting educated one person at a time....
Getting educated one person at a time....
@ "Anonymous | 2:34 p.m." | 3:11 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Anonymous | 2:34 p.m.
Do you live around here? If so... How many times has the teacher's union threatened to strike if they don't get the salary or benefit changes they want? Seems to me like it's almost every year!
I know they usually don't follow through on the threat to strike, but they have. I remember one year my kids having to make up the days at the end of the year for a teacher strike.
I know they don't happend often, but you can't say they have NEVER happend.
Do you deny that teachers have threatened to strike FREQUENTLY if they don't get their salary demands, or insurance demands, etc?
If they can THREATEN to strike... Who organizes the teachers to find out if that's what they wanted? (hint... The Union).
Are you saying we "Right Wingers" should be blaming the TEACHERS for these threatened strikes? Not the Union?
Do you live around here? If so... How many times has the teacher's union threatened to strike if they don't get the salary or benefit changes they want? Seems to me like it's almost every year!
I know they usually don't follow through on the threat to strike, but they have. I remember one year my kids having to make up the days at the end of the year for a teacher strike.
I know they don't happend often, but you can't say they have NEVER happend.
Do you deny that teachers have threatened to strike FREQUENTLY if they don't get their salary demands, or insurance demands, etc?
If they can THREATEN to strike... Who organizes the teachers to find out if that's what they wanted? (hint... The Union).
Are you saying we "Right Wingers" should be blaming the TEACHERS for these threatened strikes? Not the Union?
@ "Anonymous | 2:34 p.m. " | 3:25 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Anonymous | 2:34 p.m.
So, is there a difference between teachers deciding to "boycott" or "Strike"? Either way they don't show up to teach, right?
And if the teachers don't have a union... Who calls the meetings where they vote on whether to strike or not? Who calls the meetings where they vote to approve a contract or not? And who represents them and pushes their agenda at the legislature? And what constitutes a Union???
So, is there a difference between teachers deciding to "boycott" or "Strike"? Either way they don't show up to teach, right?
And if the teachers don't have a union... Who calls the meetings where they vote on whether to strike or not? Who calls the meetings where they vote to approve a contract or not? And who represents them and pushes their agenda at the legislature? And what constitutes a Union???
George | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009
Of course it's wrong. That's why the Legislature allows it.
Confused | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009
Just to be clear about this.
Teachers are NOT State Employees, THEY ARE employees of the School districts. They DO NOT get the same benifits as STATE Employees.
Their Retirement Benifits although monditor by URS, is another system all together.
State Employees BY LAW can not strike (if they do, they are fired). They have a "union" but with no real power.
Police Officier do have a union that does have contract radifcation process. THEY ARE NOT State Employees, They are either City or County employees.
UHP is part of the State (As well as corrections officiers). Again, they CAN NOT Strike.
As for the 20 year retirement, in the State the only ones that get this is the Post Certified Employees (UHP, Correctional Personell, State Protective Services,etc).
Please if you are going to bash us State Employees, please know your facts.
Teachers are NOT State Employees, THEY ARE employees of the School districts. They DO NOT get the same benifits as STATE Employees.
Their Retirement Benifits although monditor by URS, is another system all together.
State Employees BY LAW can not strike (if they do, they are fired). They have a "union" but with no real power.
Police Officier do have a union that does have contract radifcation process. THEY ARE NOT State Employees, They are either City or County employees.
UHP is part of the State (As well as corrections officiers). Again, they CAN NOT Strike.
As for the 20 year retirement, in the State the only ones that get this is the Post Certified Employees (UHP, Correctional Personell, State Protective Services,etc).
Please if you are going to bash us State Employees, please know your facts.
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The argument that police officers or fire fighters need a 20 retirement because of the stress the job has on them is losing weight when there is a stream of retirees returning to the same department they worked for (retaining their seniority, vacation time) and now making 50% more than what they would have earned had they not retired. how long will it be before the state decides to yank that 20 year retirement because what's to stop all officers, fire fighters, teachers to do this?
Yes there is a benefit- they retain veterans that know their job, but what happens to the pension funds if they continue to do this?