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Readers' forum: Feminism obsolete

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Anonymous | 12:15 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
So what is the point? Feminism is just a word, does it really matter what you call it? Nobody ever said that it would be the ticket to happiness, rather than it would be the ticket to fairness. That was the ultimate goal. To level the playing field for women when it comes to civil liberties and rights across the board. Have we been successful? Like the author, yes and no. There is still much work to be done yet, but we have come a long way.
Who really cares if the word feminism offends conservative people, get over it and stop oppressing people.
Pete | 12:27 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
You might be watching too much tv and have are missing the most beautiful elements of human nature. Don't short yourslef..... go long!
Agki | 4:31 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Absurd! There was another person who thought feminism to be counter to the interests of the nation and urged women to forget equality, education, jobs, political and economic rights, and just stay home and have lots of children ... of course, they were to have boy children to become soldiers of Das Dritte Reich! Many of the husbands and boyfriends of those boy factories were later killed as they followed their Fuehrer's orders into the Soviet Union where they were slaughtered by the Soviet girls of the Red Army after they did their own slaughtering.
Comments continue below
77% | 6:27 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Women still make 77 cents to every dollar a man earns. Until women get to fully participate in "personism", feminism will still be an important word.
Anonymous | 6:33 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
So you will come up with a new label that will, in time, be loaded with meaning.....
duh! | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
You have to start thinking group or collectivism. Individualism is dead. It takes a village and a community organizer these days.
@77% | 7:41 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Reality is that women choose back office jobs that do not pay the level of jobs that men will vie for. Women don't want the risk, the stress, the commitment or the work load. I watched this my whole career as an exectuve woman who was willing to pay the high price that men pay for the high paying jobs. I hired men and women and I saw the difference. I consider the difference to be ingrained natural gender differences.
Roland Kayser | 7:52 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Sounds like "humanism" to me.
Rampant Sexism | 7:59 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
One of the 14 Points of Fascism is:

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
@1215a.m. | 8:46 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The fact is, as with every other attempt made here to achieve "equality", all we have done is to create a new inequality, another wrong that does not make a right.

Now more females are in American universities than males, a statistic contrived at rather than naturally achieved. The same old "positive discrimination" and social engineering. Court decisions in domestic disputes, divorces, child custody stack the cards against men. No wonder it is women who file for divorce nowadays.

Meanwhile children suffer, there are more one-parent families, more, and more serious, juvenile delinquency. Oh well done "Liberalism"!
feminism rocks | 9:05 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
man bad / woman victim
what could possibly be wrong wih that mentality (sarcasm)
Anonymous | 9:09 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
the irrelvance, passive/aggressive manipulation and hypocrisy of modern of feminism was irrefutably confirmed when Gloria Marie Steinem told Sarah Palin to stay home with her children
Anonymous | 9:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Sexual narcissism is more accurate today. English evolves toward simplistically.

Good movement evolve from promoting change to maintenance of the status quo. To MAD the drinking problem will never be solved, only redefined. The NRA will invent threats against gun ownership. The aristocracy must be keep in luxury. If you made #250k on the war on drugs you really don't wish for a solution putting you on the street.

Feminist are faced, today with the same quandary. The majority of people in universities are women, there are more women employed than men and women spend 70% of the money that goes into consumption.

I recall the uproar when women had fewer seats in universities. There were demands for studies. There were demands for classes and woman reinvent.

When the gender discrepancy is against men women are silent. Was gender quality ever really the noble goal of feminist? Not really.

When, you are the one profiting by the current situation you are invested in no change. Equally is just a word.
Tekakaromatagi | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The Steinhem standard says that it is OK for a male boss to proposition a female underling as long as he accepts no for an answer.

The 'Steinhem' in the Steinhem standard is no other than Gloria Steinhem the founder of Ms. magazine. She was defending Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky.

There is no use for the word feminist, because the so-called 'feminists' abandoned the idea years ago. There are groups that do promote the welfare of women, but they don't even refer to themselves as feminists.
Tekakaromatagi
Men need to live longer | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
When men live longer than women they will rule the ballot box. As it is there are more women than men in the population and American women are more liberal than men and more likely to support the female sexist, rather than the egalitarian, form of feminism.
What liberals don't get | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009
What don't you liberals understand?
God is a male. We ALL know that.
Man can give birth - Woman came from man's rib.
Woman are lucky they still aren't viewed as chattel.
Woman are lucky they can vote.
Women are cursed with pain during childbirth.
Women can't lift heavy things.
Stop trying to stir up more trouble, liberals.

Anonymous | 12:58 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I agree with the commentator except that the commentator speaks of: “freedom to believe, speak and act as long as we do not infringe on others”. Reality is, there is no way to speak or act without infringing on others. Our words or actions inevitably affect those around us. If a person wants to direct their children in one direction, and your words or actions influence them in another direction, you have infringed on that person. In America, we have freedom to believe, speak and act regardless of infringement on others. Others however, have the right to reject and repel our words and actions.
What liberals do get | 1:20 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I spent many years in one of the Master’s programs at the University of Utah watching the school overlook dozens of talented men in order to give out scholarships to the few below-average female students in the class. It was because we ‘need’ more females in my industry. It isn’t about fairness. Not in the slightest. It is not about looking beyond a person’s gender or race. It is all about reorganized society to match some pointless liberal ideal. It is about the liberal’s dream to feel good about themselves without doing anything good themselves. If you can’t feel good about the way you live your life, the liberal tries to get the government to do things that make them feel good.

Feminism is just gender selfishness. Selfishness never makes the world the better place.
Anonymous | 1:31 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
What conservatives don't get is woman produced more food by gathering than men never did through hunting.

Women developed agriculture.

Pound for pound, woman are stronger than men.

Women can endure more pain.

In America, today, women are better educated as a group.

Women are less apt to engage in dangerous or destructive behavior.

Humanity can still survive after losing 95% of its men.

Conservatism is a religion and as nothing to do with facts.

I bet, women run men in America more often than men run women. "If mom isn't happy....no no is happy.

Women even stopped a war by refusing to have sex with their men.
Right's Definition of "right"  | 1:41 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The definition of a person's "right" to our clock-stopping conservatives, is the right to listen to their non-stop blabbering advice (there is a multitude of right-wing talk shows) filled with "thou shalt, thou shalt, thou shalt ... ad infinitum.
As if people need their extremists right ideology.
Poisonous Patriarchy | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The "what liberals do get" 1:20 guy is obviously another "it's all about me!" neocon, hates women, is part of the poisonous patriarchy that is permeates this twisted culture, 3rd World countries, and his modern American conservative movement.
When he says, "I spent many years in one of the Master’s programs" this tells all.
The women I know completed their master's degree in only TWO years - not "many years."
Get with it clock-stopper.
Life is leaving you behind in a cloud of dust.
idealist anyone  | 2:48 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I think your idyllic world would be great colleen the problem is that to many people do not see women as equal persons and this carries through to the way women are treated in the culture as well as the world of work. I hope someday the word feminism does become obsolete and we can treat all people equally without regard to race or color but unfortunately just wishing the disparities away is not going to work.
Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
@1:31
What the anonmous poster at 1:31 doesn't get is that their comment had nothing to do with conservatism. No one is trying to argue that men are better than women. No one is trying to argue that woman cannot do great things.

Conservatives are trying to get it through all the thick skulls out there that we should not be giving special privledges to one group over another. By all means, pay equal pay for equal work. Just don't do as the liberals want us to do - pay equal pay regardless of the equality of the work.
Anonymous | 3:51 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Feminism will evolve into newer forms. There still remains inequality of pay and inequality of promotions. Try taking away Roe vs. Wade, and you'll see feminism rebound in the blink of an eye, and it will be harsher and angrier feminism than those women in the 70's.
Goddess v Patriarchy | 3:51 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The world will never find peace and progress until men fall at their women's feet and beg forgiveness.

Before poisonous patriarchal systems took hold, societies were largely matriarchal. Goddess worship, agrarian cultures and general peace was prominent.

Then the warring ideology took over almost overnight and it's been wreaking death and destruction ever since.
re - What liberals don't get | 1 | 3:54 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
["God is a male. We ALL know that"]

what gave you that crazy idea? oh - some book written by men? figures.

["Woman came from man's rib"]

yes - and I saw the easter bunny flying the other day..


you be one loony tune, there bub.
to - Anonymous | 12:58 p.m | 3:56 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
["Our words or actions inevitably affect those around us. If a person wants to direct their children in one direction, and your words or actions influence them in another direction, you have infringed on that person"]

that's just crazy. you need to stop and think.

["In America, we have freedom to believe, speak and act regardless of infringement on others"]

no you don't. you have NO right to infringe on me, nor I on you. once you realize that, we will all be better off.
re: Poisonous Patriarchy | 2:30  | 4:20 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009

what a nasty response
so anyone who sees the dark side of feminism "hates women"?

actually you merely proved what is wrong with feminism - it is run by intolerant hypocrites who hate men

typical passive/aggressive response - which is why feminism is a joke - it is obviously not about equality - its about power
Anonymous | 4:32 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Why have conservatives block laws to give equal pay?

I'm the liberal who wrote about "Sexual narcissism and the self serving hypocrisy of the feminist movement. What is it, you want to teach me?

Later, I pointed out in response to male egoism that women invented agriculture. Who has a think skull here?
@2:30 | 4:36 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Your attempt to be offensive just exposes your ignorance. Conservatives merely seek to learn from the lessons of the past and to not destroy what was good about it. If that makes them “clock-stoppers” in your narrow point of view, then the world frankly has no use for your point of view.

My Masters was a three year program and I only went to school half time so I could provide for my family. But I enjoyed your demonstration of typical liberal tactics - If you can’t disprove the argument, slander the person arguing.

Had I been at the school only 2 years, I wouldn’t have noticed that every single woman that showed up in the program, regardless of her abilities, received a scholarship. But don’t let my observations of reality persuade you. You're way to smart for that.

It's not about me - part-time students aren’t eligible for scholarships. I have no idea what you mean by “neocon” other than you obviously hope it offended me. I have no hatred whatsoever for women. The “poisonous patriarchy” alliteration you're so proud of merely exposed your prejudice and rendered you unworthy of respect.
re: neocon poster 4:20 | 5:09 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
"so anyone who sees the dark side of..."
And this is PRECISELY the problem of the modern American conservative movement.
To conservatives, EVERYTHING is dark.
Even progress is dark to these clockstoppers.
Patriarchy is evil | 5:12 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009


Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique (1963) criticized the idea that women could only find fulfillment through childrearing and homemaking. According to Friedan's obituary in the The New York Times, The Feminine Mystique “ignited the contemporary women's movement in 1963 and as a result permanently transformed the social fabric of the United States and countries around the world” and “is widely regarded as one of the most influential nonfiction books of the 20th century." In the book Friedan hypothesizes that women are victims of a false belief system that requires them to find identity and meaning in their lives through their husbands and children. Such a system causes women to completely lose their identity in that of their family. Friedan specifically locates this system among post-World War II middle-class suburban communities. At the same time, America's post-war economic boom had led to the development of new technologies that were supposed to make household work less difficult, but that often had the result of making women's work less meaningful and valuable.
Anna | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
Anonymous 1:31
So you are rewriting history ? And Lysastrata was a play written by a gay Greek in that country's heyday of homosexuality and feminism, not real history .
Goddess vs Patriarchy 3:51
If you think that Patriarchy is such a crime against you, I dare you to walk the streets of Harlem in NYC so you can check out the paradise the women and children have to live in because there are no awful fathers to bother with. REAL heaven, especially for the kids.
And it is the children who are the REAL victims of feminism.
Those who should be our top priority, are not mentioned at all by profeminists here. They sort of get in the way of their totally selfish agenda.
Re 5:12 poster | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
We’ve all heard the feminist diatribe before. Blah blah…victims…blah blah…barefoot and pregnant…blah blah….evil patriarchal men…blah...victims...blah blah. Alright, we get it.

And it entirely misses the point.

People honor and appreciate other people who make big sacrifices for the sake of others — whether that be soldiers at war, people who MUST slave away at work day after day to provide for their families, Christ who gave everything for our sake, or women who place their children and family above their own selfish desire for 'fulfillment'.

I don’t care what women choose to do with their lives. It is their choice.

But people will always reserve their praise only for those who make sacrifices for the sake of others. There is nothing wrong with a woman who seeks ‘fulfillment’ instead of the joys of raising a family. But they have their reward. Don’t expect any praise from God or the rest of us. Even the lowest of creatures can seek to take care of itself. Honor and glory are reserved for those who can aim beyond that mark.
PERSONISM | 7:42 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
SARAH PALIN is the new GLORIA STEINHEM.

HOT, RICH, SELF-ABSORBED and eventually COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.
Dagmar | 8:16 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I wouldn't want to be equal to a man, with the exception of equal pay, but the buck stops there.
Happy Women | 8:52 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
The most fulfilled women I have known in my life are devoted mothers. In fact, they find their meaning in life, in the care and love of their children. They enjoy other things, but that is the pole star of their life. Come to think of it, they are the only women I know anymore. All the other women I have known who looking for fulfillment in sex or career or money, are gone. They were just too miserable to be around.
Anonymous | 9:41 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
feminism = the radical concept women are people
too far | 6:32 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Sexism vs Feminism in the country today (part of conservative "values") is the primary reason we have brutal attacks on women such as the recent gang-raping at a high school dance.
And is the also the reason the GOP is shunning those outspoken "conservatives" like the plague.
Neocons have gone too far.
Anonymous | 9:17 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009

It seems to me that the comments posted here demonstrate better than any liberal argument the need for the continued existence of feminism. When arguments like "women are lucky they can vote", "women are lucky they are not still treated as chattel" and women just dont work as hard as men are still being made we can be sure that there is still a need for feminism.
oh really | 10:55 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
women get 70 cents to the dollar men get...but my wife gets all of hers and all of mine...I'm no great shakes at math but that doesn't match your numbers...women and men will be equal when women and men are the SAME...I hope I do not live to see it. and by the way...if 5% of the men could maintain humanity...(with the women staying) would that not mean men are more capable than women? I can only imagine the outrage when we have a 20 or 25 to 1 ratio of women and they have to share those men...If Jerry Springer is one of the surviving men he will be the richest guy on earth with a never ending supply of shows!
Sexism v Feminism?? | 10:55 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Feminism IS Sexism.

Anonymous | 10:56 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
No 6:32 and 9:17, people say what they observe. But You aren't interested in fact, are you. Instead, you decide who is weak, decide that they are victims, decide that the strong are victimisers, and then evolve your point of view around your misconceptions.

btw, Attacks on women are the predictable results of the liberal-supported porn and free-sex mentality. It has nothing to do with sexism or opposition to feminism.
from a political scientist | 11:36 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
#5 Rampant Sexism

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

From the 14 Points of Fascism study

Only in Utah | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Like racism, I thought we were done with the good ol' boys club mentality.
Anonymous | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Why is there no Matriarchal Blessing ceremony?
@1136a.m. | 6:37 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
The governments of most if not all nations are male dominated including our own feminist government at Washington.

Women usually seem to prefer local government and judicial appointments, with a few notable exceptions.

Women have been the heads of government only in Britain and Asia (Israel, India, Phillipines, Pakistan).
Anonymous | 11:03 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Let's have no more "isms."

Good letter. Yes, feminism is dead. It served it's purpose by getting women the vote and equal pay for equal work, and other rights. But now feminism is about destroying marriage and family since they are considered to be "oppressive to women." It's all about elective abortions and same sex marriage nowadays.

To: 6:37 p.m. | 11:51 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Your post illustrates why one can’t automatically believe what's posted on internet threads.

Women have been Presidents in these countries:
Argentina, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Iceland, Malta, Philippines, Haiti, Germany (Chancellor), Finland, Ireland, Burundi, Sri Lanka, Ecuador, Guyana, Latvia, Panama, Indonesia, Liberia, Chile, Israel, India, Georgia, Gabon and Lithuania.

The list of female prime ministers is too long to add here.

Reason | 12:04 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009
People that don’t like the term feminism usually feel threatened by it somehow.

The definition of feminism is “equal rights for women.” Some, like the poster at 11:03 p.m., want to add their own personal definitions to the term.

When equal rights has been accomplished on this planet the word will happily fade from use.

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