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Look before you leap: The dangers of ward hopping

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Levi | 1:04 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

So in a nutshell, the "church"'s needs come before the member's.

If the member's needs are not being met, they need to stick it out for the good of the church.

Sick sick sick.

Anonymous | 1:39 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

There's a solution to that problem. If you find a ward that really feels like home and is comfortable, move into the boundaries As students at University wards, we occasionally moved if the ward didn't feel right. That way one can get a calling, interview or get counsel, etc.

So True | 2:09 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I have seen this time and time again, they eventually fall away from the church or are luke warm members. Saw it with a friends son. Ward hopped, found a girl and went to his home ward BIshop two weeks before marriage wanting a temple recommend. The Bishop said, "Who are you, I don't know you." No recommend. Hurt feelings and 25 years still no temple recommend.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 5:41 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

In a world full of actual problems, maybe the church should be more focused on service, and a bit less focused things like "ward-hopping".

Anonymous | 5:42 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Does ward-hopping negatively affect tithing payment? Because that's about the only reason I could comprehend what the basis of this article is.

tammie | 6:29 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Why do the church leaders even have single wards for people over thirty? At that age if people aren't going for the right reasons, to worship then there is a problem. And also I think a lot of those people in those older single wards just need to go back to their home wards so they have some role models of how successful marriages can be.

EastCoaster | 6:37 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

This is a terrible article, full of the attitudes that force singles out of the church. When you are “over the age”, you are treated like a second class citizen. Opportunities to serve are rare, many callings are considered beyond your spiritual maturity, and couples and families do not reach out to singles. I was asked on MANY occasions by bishops and well-intentioned ward members to “go find a ward where you can meet someone”. 3 hours sitting alone becomes too much, so you are forced to ward-hop. I was single in Utah, and I moved to the Washington DC area, Mecca of over 30 and still single LDS. I never fit in anywhere. I was asked over and over again to leave wards because they were not my “boundaries”. What choice do we have when our own wards make it so painful that we cannot bear to be there on Sunday? I spent 17 years in the single adult program and finally quit coming. No one noticed or cared.

Anonymous | 6:37 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Please tell me you didn't actually just say "hotties."

Steve | 6:46 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Both my wife and I as singles were separately prompted to start attending our assigned ward - we met and were married in a matter of months.

Nathan | 7:22 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I think this is a great article! Both single and family members should pay close attention.

If you read the Church Handbook of Instructions it states that only the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can authorize individuals living in one ward to attend in another ward.

I think the Brethren understand individual needs are best met by those who are entitled to the inspiration and that rests only upon the bishop in the ward you are assigned to attend. Many people, old and young, choose to live on the fringes of their testimonies because they failed to grow a back bone and think they are an exception to inspired policy.

In the realm of responsible persons, it is not admirable to be an exception to policy.

I'm confident there will be many who will post contrary comments about my post and if you are inclined so to do, you are the ones of which I speak.

f.day | 7:45 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

The church is to serve members, not vice versa. Those that care enough to seek another ward are not
likely to drop out of the church. The church needs
a breathe of change to orient to the needs of members rather than the rules issued from Salt Lake.
The 3 hour time block needs to be reduced. All
members need to be instructed regarding giving
church talks. They should not be just read out of
the Ensign. The microphone system needs to be changed so speakers can be heard. Local bishops
should be given more freedom to change the format
to meet local needs. More church leadership needs
to come from members who live out of Salt Lake. The leadership needs to listen as well as orate. The
church needs to survey members regarding suggestions
for change. Then pray about changing to serve instead of dictate.

to Tammie | 8:02 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Tammie, honey, you are proving your ignorance in many ways by your comments. I'm guessing you married young and, so, know nothing about what it's like to be older, LDS and single. And by the way, there is a difference between young single adults--which the article is talking about, and which covers the age range of 18-30, and single adults, which covers the ages of 31+. And if you really think we singles need to attend home wards so we can be inspired by some successful marriages, you obviously don't know how many problems many of those so-called wonderful marriages are hiding. I think you live in Fantasy Land and that you should quit being so judgmental about single people and what they need to do with themselves and why they're single in the first place. If you don't know them personally, what do you know about it???

to Nathan | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

My, aren't we holier than thou? I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but I do object to self-righteous tone. That isn't the way to persuade people that you're right. Arrogance is not persuasive.

Trowe | 8:08 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

@Nathan | 7:22 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

"If you read the Church Handbook of Instructions it states "

The church keeps a tight fist on said handbook. Only the top ward and stake leaders have access, and the church has threated legal action against those who attempt to publish it.

And personally, I some how doubt that a bunch of 80 year old strangers have better insight into individual situations of people they've never metn than the people living them.

And regarding your last comment, you might want to read Pres. Benson's talk on pride. The emnity you show towards people you've never met who don't agree with you would certainly fall under one of his warnings about pride.

Former Single | 8:08 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I agree you should not ward hop. However, these single adults need someone to welcome them and befriend them no matter where they attend church. In my long time as a young single adult, I had two singles wards I could attend. I tried one, loved it and stayed for several years. Then I didn't love it anymore and went to the other ward, got my records moved, but then never developed any friendships or even welcoming greetings. I went back to the other ward and was welcomed back with friendship and caring. Please, just focus on the individual and not on the administrative functions of the church. Would Jesus turn away someone because they are not in the "ward boundaries?"

Hi | 8:11 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I recall attending church at my fiancé’s ward at BYU the semester before we married. I could not get my bishop to sign my ecclesiastic endorsement. Nobody suggested that I had not attended Church every week, it just wasn’t the right ward.

The argument of "Shouldn't my fiancé and I attend church together" failed. "Your counselor approved this 3 months ago," finally made the good bishop cave.

I recognize the problem of population instability in a congregation of volunteer clergy. But perhaps....

Catherine | 8:12 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I am a firm believer that single's wards are a huge mistake and the church is missing the entire point of what worship is and should be. One should not be put (either on purpose or inadvertantly) in a certain category based on their marital status. One should not go to church to socialize or find a date. You should go there to worship, renew your baptismal vows, and be edified spiritually to keep you going in the right direction through this struggle of life.

Instead of making special wards for singles to go to "fit in" and find someone to marry because until then you are not a complete human being in some viewpoints, maybe everyone should probe deeper to find out precisely why it is singles feel they don't fit in. Church is a place of worship for anyone young or old to belong. Leave dating and checking out of the hotties for some other venue.

Wes | 8:14 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I'm pretty sure you'll find nowhere in the Gospels an admonition from Christ to attend church at your local ward only. The rest is LDS church politics.

Let 'Em Do What They Need to Do | 8:17 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

You know what? I don't see anything wrong with young singles attending another ward for a week or two to see if there is anyone there they could date. Should they stay there forever if it isn't their ward? No. But do I think it's wrong if they visit for a couple of weeks to "scope" people out? No, I don't. And speaking as a 43 year old, never married LDS person, I'm completely in favor of young singles using whatever decent resources they can to try to find a mate. It's certainly much easier for them at their age than it is at mine. The church is all about marriage and family and if you don't have that, you're not mainstream and you never get the respect that mainstream members do. So why close off an avenue to young singles that might actually help them find their companion? Should they go to a bar instead? Really! I say let them go shopping. And after they've shopped a bit, they should go back to their own ward. Yes, it's mostly about the worship; but it's also about getting married.

To: f.day | 8:19 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

"The church is to serve members, not vice versa."

The Church IS the members. If the members don't stay put and fulfill their callings, rather than jumping around looking for a place they enjoy, then the Church would not be able to function, and NO ONE would be served. The members serve each other. That is how the Church functions.

Did you read the same article? | 8:22 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

To tammie and EastCoaster: I didn't see anywhere in this article that this was about "over thirty" or "over the age" wards.
I believe it is about young adult wards.

Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Why so much control in the Mormon Church. Other religions allow their members to choose parishes where they feel comfortable attending. Everyone is different and has different needs and interests. I for one feel that Salt Lake has too much authority and people need to take back for themselves some decision making responsibility. If they balk there are wonderful Bible based churches that open their arms to all no matter what their zip code is.

AZrods | 8:28 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

@f.day...if you had even been to church in the past 10 years, your comment might mean something.
Well, not really.
I would say exactly the opposite of everything you have written on your blog. wow!

Marc from Ogden | 8:41 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

It's a rather simple point and people of the world won't understand it. People talk about going inactive because nobody notices them. Those are the people that haven't yet realized that we attend our meetings in our wards, single or married, in order to serve the Lord and gain a personal testimony of him. We all have our personal trials with doubting the faith, and our attitudes that we take into the Sabbath is one of those trials. If you go to church in your assigned ward thinking to yourself that it's "stupid" or "pointless", chances are, the Spirit will not be able to penatrate your heart and touch your lives. You will not strengthen your testimony and therefore it is likely that you will feel "awkward" when you visit your ward, because you are telling yourself that you don't want to be there. We as members need to be aware of pride. None of us are any better than anybody else in the eyes of the Lord. If we truly sustain His chosen priesthood leaders, we will follow their council without defensiveness or anger in our hearts.

G.I. Jones | 8:54 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I would like to suggest church hopping if you are not satisfied with what the LDS faith has to offer.

to Catherine | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I don't think your view of the ideal has much to do with reality. What other venues do you propose for LDS people to find someone to date? There really aren't many. And the fact of the matter is that you tend to find people to associate with in the places where people like yourself congregate together. So, your opinion that dating urges should be left outside the church doors has nothing to do with how life actually works.

It doesn't take much to understand why singles don't feel like they fit in. They don't. Church curriculum and doctrine are geared towards marriage and family, so singles naturally feel left out. Furthermore, marrieds aren't socializing with singles; they socialize with each other--so, singles are outsiders. And married members tend to form judgments about why others are single--i.e. something's wrong with them or they aren't righteous or deserving in some way. Class opinions and observations of singles aren't respected by marrieds when it comes to concepts about marriage and family--since you haven't been there, you don't know anything. How are we going to fit in?

Over the Top | 9:02 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Sure, ward hopping can be a problem, but Bishop Schwabb's asking singles to "leave" is over the top and not consistent with how things should or do work.

Anonymous | 9:11 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

@Catherine

I find your view rather limited and lacking understanding of the "singles" situation. My sister is single in her 30's. She, along with many others, abhor going to a family ward, because the entire focus is on marriage. If you're not married, you simply don't fit in. It's not that they "feel" that they don't fit in. They don't. The church was designed for nearly 170 years solely around marriage, families, and procreation. Singles have grown up for years being told "marriage, marriage, marriage"- I somehow doubt they enjoy continuing to go to family wards where their lack of marriage is so prominently on display.

Robo | 9:15 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I am a counselor in a young single adult ward with about 140 members of which about 25 to 30 do not technically live in our ward boundaries. We feel like if they will come regularly so that we can have their records and minister to their needs, they are welcome. We don't actively recruit people out of our ward boundaries, but those that seek us out are welcomed. I suppose we would get "called on the carpet" by higher ups if they knew the extent, but we feel like it is a pivotal time in the lives of these kids and we love to have them. They are all so amazing. However, I think the article is talking more about those who never attend any ward regularly rather than those who attend a different ward than the boundaries in which they live.

Student Ward Bishop | 9:16 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Having been a Bishop in a Single Student Ward, I would offer the following:

The premise of the article is right on. Young people need the consistency of being part of a Ward week after week.

We allowed people who lived outside of the boundaries to be part of the Ward under certain circumstances... if they were willing to have their records moved in and become an active part of the Ward, so they could have a calling, if they were engaged (or close) to a member of the Ward, if they had previously been part of the Ward, and were close to graduation, and other similar reasons.

We encouraged engaged couples to be part of the same Ward so they could make the necessary preparations, interviews, etc, together and report to and be counseled by the same Bishop.

Ward Hopping keeps a person from making connections with priesthood leaders, and also makes it very easy for them to miss out on the blessings that come from being part of a Ward.

On that point, this article is right on.

Trowe | 9:19 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Marc from Ogden,

Glad to see you have a firm understanding of "those people" that "haven't yet realized". You can talk about being aware of pride, but your comments seem to indicate that what you mean is "beware of pride if you're not as righteous as me"...maybe I'm misreading your tone, but I'm just sayin'...

Wow | 9:27 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

We all now the point of YSA wards are to get singles married (i.e. to find "hotties") but when someone doesn't see any, they can't go to a ward that has some people who actually interests them? I don't care if Schwab is a Bishop, asking someone to leave is inappropriate. The End. Not to mention hurtful. The person might actually transfer their records to the ward. Most wardhoppers will settle down.

These YSA Wards WERE created to fulfill the social needs of singles. They should be able to switch if they feel their needs aren't being met.

Anonymous | 9:32 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I think this hit s the nail on the head! I've been in several "student" and "singles" wards (7 different wards), always attending my own ward and have been blessed for my efforts to reach out rather than waiting to be entertained and served by those at church. If you want to meet new people, go to the mid-week activities of different wards rather than ward hopping on Sunday - they have a billion!!! In my opinion, those who ward hop don't understand the gospel. There are plenty of other ways to meet people in the church. I met my husband on a blind date. Keep Sunday the sabbath to mingle with and serve those in your ward and use the rest of thew week to "hop" and look for "hotties" outside of your ward if you think your ward is "lame"!

Julie | 9:33 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

So, the church is there for me to keep it running? I could get a calling that is basically a full time job. I give my money to the church willingly. I spend time stressing about giving talks and lessons. The church asks alot from its members - but I can't ask for a congregation that I feel comfortable with?

Catherine | 9:36 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

P.S.- One of the reasons temple-goers wear white and relatively plain and simple styles of clothing is to symbolize that they are all one purpose, all children of God, and all loved by God. Nobody is different and all are accepted. There is no status. The person sitting next to you may have a higher calling in church or a higher salary in the temporal world, married or non-married, but at the temple all are beloved sons and daughters of God - plain and simple.

Why, then, are we categorized at church?

The knowledge gained and spirituality of the temple transcends earthly pettiness and worries. You'd think those basic things would trickle down into church meetings and unite us, rather than divide us, at the more day-to-day level also.

Re: Tami | 9:37 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

The church (and my family) have PLENTY of role models of a "good marriage." In fact, they make sure they are front and center. A member of the priesthood can't get a high calling in the church unless they are married. Either can seminary/institute teachers. But guess what? It hasn't helped me find someone yet. You must be someone who hasn't been lonely or has forgotten what it feels like to have your singleness rubbed in your face.

Tone of this article | 9:37 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I understand some of the problems "ward hopping" can create. But are we really the kind of church that this article portrays? This came across as if we are more driven by policy than compassion and empathy. What about the idea that when a single person finds a ward they are compfortable in (for whatever reason) they may actually have much more motivation to serve and lift those in that ward? I think there is a great lack of empathy in our church for both younger and older singles. This is a marriage/family driven church and leaders like the Bishop quoted in this article come across as having very little empathy for the situation singles find themselves in.

What is more beneficial in the long run - someone who ward hops a bit and in so doing finds their mate, starts a family and assimilates into their home ward as a young family - or someone who stays in their boundaries, struggles to find a mate, but at least fulfills their calling?

Sometimes administration, conformity and policy seem to trump everything. I wish this article would have been balanced by quotes from a Bishop who had more empathy.

motr | 9:37 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Reading this makes me feel very blessed to be a member in my church. We have a motto: No matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here!

Anonymous | 9:40 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

to Catherine | 8:57 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Well said.

Follow the Brethren | 9:47 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

This is not a simple "black and white" issue to discuss. But regardless of each single person's situation, it comes back to one thing - if we believe the Church to be true, then we must, without complaint, abide by the rules. That means we need to take the initiative and make the best of our situation; be in a position to receive callings; serve others; and, be accountable to the Lord. And that accountability is manifest through our bishop. We need to “always” have a current temple recommend; which means we’re also accountable to our Stake President. The geographical structure of the Church isn’t something the brethren guessed at — it was inspired. Even with the growth of the Church today, there’s no need to change anything. Whether we have 13 million or 100 million members, the structure will accommodate the growth.
In my dating and courtship, I dealt with the same issues as you; and, I’ve served as a bishop — so I do sincerely understand the points made here. However, our being critical of the brethren or the Church, won’t solve anything. My suggestion is that you seek the guidance of the Spirit.

Re: Over the Top | 9:47 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Exactly. Bro Schwab over stepped his bounds. I thought the point was to be accepting of anyone coming through the doors. Them being at church is the important thing.

I agree with the comments above me. Singles don't really fit in a regular ward. Everything is geared toward marriage and family. If you don't have either, most of the lessons won't apply to you at all. Lot of people in the church act like its easy to get married because it was easy for them to find someone. That is not the case. I know a lot of single women who get tears in their eyes when thinking about not being married. I know I do.

The Truth | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

Marc from Ogden | 8:41 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010:

"It's a rather simple point and people of the world won't understand it. People talk about going inactive because nobody notices them. Those are the people that haven't yet realized that we attend our meetings in our wards, single or married, in order to serve the Lord and gain a personal testimony of him."

If people feel like they have no friends, nobody cares about them, or nobody notices them then how do they gain the confidence they need to serve? Rejection often leads to humility and also to fear. It has nothing to do with testimony.

It's easy for outgoing type personalities to enjoy social places. It is not easy, sometimes extremely difficult, for introverted type personalities to feel comfortable in social places. Everybody is different, so treat them individually, not collectively.

EastCoaster | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

“Did you read same article” and “Marc from Ogden”

Indeed, I did read the same article. The reality is that many of these people from the young adults ward are going to outgrow the singles wards in ages, but never in attitudes from the home wards. I spent 12 years in the “singles” wards, and shifted from 3 different “home wards” in DC where there were many singles and “more opportunities”. I speak from personal experience when I fault the wards, the priesthood holders and the culture. My point is that I was thwarted from every angle when it came to “trying to fit in” and growing spiritually. No amount of temple attendance, sacrament partaking, or scripture reading and sincere prayer can hide the fact that I did not have the kind of community and fellowship I so craved. I spent many Sundays in tears. Not because I was single, but because I would never feel “enough” on my own in God’s eyes, or anyone else in the church. You cannot stand on your pedestal of marriage and tell me my heart was not in the right place and my testimony was not strong enough.

jeremy | 9:49 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

if you are looking to attend a singles ward with no boundries. you should try the londonderry ward in sandy, ut. they dont care about where you live. 801-576-2999

Anonymous | 9:50 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

This is the first time I've ever heard of a Bishop asking a member to leave the meetings. Just because the person didn't know if they would be moving into the ward or not, they are still welcome in the meetings. After all, the Church belongs to the Lord and not to Bishop Schwab. If the person was disrupting the meeting, then maybe they could be asked to leave. But that is not what the article states.

I did not attend my home ward meetings for almost two years because I was helping care for my parents and had to attend meetings at a time when I could. My ward never missed me or care those two years. My visiting teacher dropped by occasionally. I didn't have home teachers that ever came, which is not unusual when you are single.

Shame on Bishop Schwab.

to: "to Catherine" | 9:50 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

You have assumed that I haven't been there by your comment "since you haven't been there, you don't know anything."

Um, I have been there, am there, single, and over the age of 35. I do know precisely what I'm talking about.

And yes, I was speaking of the ideal, not how things actually are. My entire point. Church SHOULD BE a place for everyone to feel welcome and not feel scoped out while they are attempting to worship. It is unfortunate that things are not that way.

Jet stream! | 9:59 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I ward hop.
I am a snow bird, and I have many homes throughout the U.S.
I don't see anything wrong with it!

OC Surfer | 10:08 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

@ Tammie and others concerned about 30-something Singles

Here's an outline of approved Midsingles Magnet Ward approach we've doing here in California and one the East Coast, where all 30s Midsingles within the stake, all attend the same family ward together. This totally helps Singles remain active in a family ward .

midsingles dot wordpress dot com

Carol | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

I joined the Church as a High School student, in a different Ward than the one I lived in. I suppose it was allowed because it let me stay in the Ward my boyfriend first introduced me to. But as an adult, I can look back and see several disadvantages to that:
#1: There were members in my neighborhood whom I never met.
#2: There were many more members attending my school that I never knew were LDS.
Since that time I have moved often, and have appreciated the fact that Ward members might also be neighbors.
So based on my experience, I ALWAYS encourage people to attend, participate in and CONTRIBUTE TO their "home" Ward.
As to finding people to marry, I can see that is a difficulty when you get beyond the college/Institute age group. But there are other places to meet people.

Mike Richards | 10:25 a.m. Feb. 4, 2010

For those who believe church is just a social club, then it wouldn't matter where they attend or even if they believe in the doctrines being taught; but, when a member 'sustains' the Prophet as the Lord's representative on earth then part of that 'sustaining' is to follow the council of the Prophet.

Those who don't believe in living Prophets certainly have the right to believe anything that they want about Prophets. (The Lord will introduce those people to His prophets at an appropriate time.)

Membership in the LDS Church carries some responsibility to serve others - remember it's a 'lay' church where the members do the work. 'Ward hopping' is an easy way for the uncommitted to thumb their nose at those who serve and declare, by their actions, that they only want to be served.

If someone can't commit to the Lord and do things His way, why would anyone else think that marriage would change that demonstrated lack of commitment?

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